12:44:26 CAPTIONER MESSAGE:    Captioner standing by.
13:03:05 --      Good afternoon and welcome everyone to this online workshop, this town haul conversation about conversation about childcare in Australia and how we can reach a much better system.
13:03:21 I would like to begin by acknowledging country, I am working at home in minority cot which is on...land as part of the Kulin nation.
13:03:40 I acknowledge not simply the elders past and present but I want to acknowledge the deep wisdom that comes from 2,000 generations or 60,000 years of custodianship over this country that is our home.
13:04:00 I would also like to acknowledge our childcare workers mainly women who have been tirelessly attempting to provide quality service for decades now despite a lack of appropriate support over time from governments.
13:04:10 I think in particular the way they dealt with this issue through the grueling 2020 pandemic experience.
13:04:17 I would like to acknowledge our speakers, our panellists who have given time freely for this event.
13:04:32 If I could introduce them and indicate that at first I will field questions to the panellists then we will take questions from you present in the Zoom audience.
13:04:51 We are delighted to have the company of professor Fiona Stanley, first and foremost and epidemiologist but an outstanding advocate in this country for public health and childrens health.
13:04:58 Fiona is /AOUPB self-Australian ambassador for early childhood.
13:05:07 She was named Australia of the year in 2003 and I think also a year later was deemed one of our living treasures.
13:05:26 She was founding director of the Telethon Kids institute in Perth in 1990, she was made a companion of the order of Australia in 1996, way back and in 2002 she launched the Australian research alliance for children and youth.
13:05:32 We are delighted to have her present with us day.
13:05:42 We are also in the company of Rana Hussain I am delighted to say is a fellow board member of the Victorian Women's Trust.
13:06:02 I am not so delighted to say she was a diversity inclusion leader in the Richmond football club because we have different passions but her passion for diversity and inclusion marks her out as an inspirational leader in the Australian community.
13:06:10 Especially in the area of sport and diversity but being able to extend that to a lot of other spheres.
13:06:19 We have an apology sadly from Georgie Dent today, she is not able at the last minute to attend.
13:06:23 I will be fielding questions to others on the panel.
13:06:35 I commend you to, in case I forget later, to follow the work of Georgie as organisation of which she is executive director called The Parenthood.
13:06:52 The Parenthood has released a paper in February this year, a brilliant snapshot of a lot of issues facing parents in the country including early childhood learning.
13:07:32 Finally, last but not least Christina Hobbs, CEO of Verve Super, she is an experienced board director in the superannuation industry, former Deloitte management consultant, work as an expert for the United Nations for a decade, is a former board director of the Global Women's Project...and leads this path breaking superannuation company for woman in particular called Verve Super.
13:07:36 Welcome to the panelists and thank you for taking part.
13:07:42 What I would like to do quickly is set the scene in a minute or so.
13:08:00 Then I want to put questions to each of our three panellists to help frame this debate and then have at least 20 minutes or so for me to field questions that will come through from you, the audience, to me then I can direct them to the panelists.
13:08:12 Then by about 10 to 2 we will be in a position to make closing remarks, one minute or so each from the panelists and then for me to make some wrapping up remarks.
13:08:17 Without any further ado let me set the scene.
13:08:32 I think the original focus on this session was can we achieve gender equality without quality childhood early /KHAOLD hood learning.
13:08:34 The quick answer is no, we can't.
13:08:56 Let's get that off the table, we can't do it so we have to focus how we not only provide a brilliant early childhood learning system in this country of ours because we will look after our kids and families better but also look after women better.
13:09:00 We had a taste in 2020 through the pandemic.
13:09:13 We had a taste, we had an inkling and glimmer of what we could become by our kids and families, women in particular.
13:09:27 Under the pressure of the pandemic the government provided free childcare and they funded, diverted funds into helping families through job keeper and so on.
13:09:52 They withdrew that then in July and job keeper is about to be withdrawn and there has been snap back all right from the federal government but it is snapping back to a childcare system in trouble, a childcare system that is precarious, we pay the highest costs in the world for childcare, the government funding systems are not working well.
13:10:00 There are much cash strapped families now being faced with winding back access to childcare.
13:10:22 Childcare fees drain family savings, stops a lot of people from being able to put the kind of food on the table they want to put on the table, makes people - it is difficult for people to meet every day expenses, economic security for women is under challenge in that respect and families suffer.
13:10:31 Childcare costs at the moment means that after housing costs it is the greatest cost facing our families.
13:10:34 So, it is a no-brainer, I think.
13:10:38 It has to be a lot cheaper and possibly even free.
13:10:52 The long-term benefits of a universal accessible affordable quality childcare system are unarguable in my book.
13:10:53 We will come to that later.
13:10:57 So, it is not in a great position at all.
13:11:00 We are a wealthy country.
13:11:22 We can actually afford to have a significantly improved childcare system but it is clearly not going to come unless all of us here today and everybody else we can think of puts our shoulders to the wheel and takes our politicians kicking and screaming into the future.
13:11:27 That's as I see t the context.
13:11:39 The pandemic exposed good sides to this country but exposed some real weeknesses and one is the childcare system.
13:12:11 What I want to do having introduced the speakers is to throw to Fiona first because I struck Fiona in a 2003 Kenneth Myer lecture, you talked of moderate /TERPB tea's paradox in which increasing wealth and opportunity resulted in increased social difference and more problems for youth and children including asthma, obesity, binge drinking, mental health problems.
13:12:19 You argued in the lecture the challenge was for cross disciplinary approaches but for intervention earlier in causal cycles.
13:12:21 That was 2003.
13:12:24 Switch now 18 years on.
13:12:44 In your view can we extend this notion of modern tea as paradox at a clinical level nationally as a wealthy country to provide a universal accessible afford absolutely quality early childhood system.
13:12:54 Over to you Fiona to make something of this tantilising phrase the modern tea paradox.
13:13:02 --      Thank you for the Dorothy Dix.
13:13:06 You put the contradictions and solutions.
13:13:09 I hate to say from 2003 I told you so.
13:13:48 I told you if we didn't get it right then and intervene early and provide that across the board support for early childhood and we did get it up, even with John Howard we got it up, I can't believe in 2021 the blood pouring from me bashing my head against the brick wall and at the age of 75 I am still lobbying for a freely accessible early childhood system, the best investment a nation can do for economic and sustainable activities.
13:14:01 The UN ICEF report card pre-COVID, you are right, before COVID we weren't doing well.
13:14:04 We must not snap back.
13:14:18 In the report card Australia had fallen down to the lower third just above the US who is doing very badly, I will come back to Joe by deny in a minute.
13:14:20 We had not improved.
13:14:24 For some areas we didn't provide the data.
13:14:38 We have the /TKA*D data, we didn't want to be ranked?  In the educational out comes, mental health out comes and children not feeling safe.
13:14:46 What...is rising inequality in Australia, month than America but here to.
13:14:50 That is a disas officer for women and children.
13:15:04 A long comes COVID, in a minute we switch to a job keeper, to a free childcare, we showed that the privatisation of...was not good.
13:15:11 If you want to make money out of welfare services it is not the way to go.
13:15:24 That shows we should not snap back to a pre-COVID neocapitalist agenda...bring coal and gas back, all the things that were evidenced.
13:15:27 They took notice of us in the pandemic.
13:15:30 You know what I do.
13:15:32 The science was paramount.
13:15:36 It cannot snap back to not take /OG board the science.
13:15:40 I don't mean for climate change I mean nor early childhood.
13:15:56 My quick summary, I want to keep on talking forever but the evidence now is so clear that quality pregnancy and early childhood environments are the most porky stone to prevention and good public health for any nation.
13:16:01 It is the most important intervention we can do and cost-effectively so.
13:16:04 It is for two reasons, big reasons.
13:16:20 You get very many more children, if you had this freely available high quality environment in pregnancy and childhood you would have more children growing up healthy and being able to participate in society as good adults.
13:16:24 Good parents, teachers, childcare workers, good everything.
13:16:29 That is very good for our economy if you want to put it that way.
13:16:46 What it also does is reduce the huge budgets with end of pathway expenditure on developmental disorders, learning problems, school truancy, child abuse, out of home care, contact with the justice system.
13:16:58 I want to quote a study we did in Western Australia at the Telethon Kids institute...excuse me if I get emotional.
13:17:01 It defence states me.
13:17:12 They show nearly 90 per cent of children in the banks I can't detention centre developed serious neuro-developmental disorder, intellectual disability.
13:17:18 56 per cent had fast D and very few were diagnosed before they got into the centre.
13:17:22 I found this extraordinary.
13:17:27 Of the majority could have been prevented by good childcare services.
13:17:32 I am amazed we still have detention, huge expenditure.
13:17:36 We are not actually investing in the high quality childcare services.
13:17:40 People don't seem to understand causal pathways, Mary.
13:17:54 Apart from the humane arguments about how awful it is we lock up kids whose stolen generation parents and grandparents /TKPWRAEUFRPBG in pregnancy because of their despair and now we lock up the children and grandchildren.
13:18:12 It positive pathways to enhance our national future is, with less expenditure on the end stage - I have given you the justice but it is education and disability and other things.
13:18:14 That is - sorry to keep on talking.
13:18:16 --      Not at all.
13:18:42 Before I do go to Rana and Christina, you made me think well when I was dealing with my partner with childcare issues and quality early childhood issues a quarter of a century ago it was in better nick then than it is now.
13:18:43 --      That is what I wonder.
13:18:52 With the neocapitalist agenda how we marginalised more people.
13:19:02 Post war we had a capitalist agenda with a human face like the Scandinavian counts, Sweden is a place up there.
13:19:10 In fact, as...said no, create wealth and it will - that has been devastating.
13:19:10 --      Yes.
13:19:23 --      That is why job keeper and free childcare were good, it said we are going to get around that extreme - let the market solve everything -
13:20:08 --      Before I go to Rana and Christina I wanted to give you an early opportunity to comment more specifically around the debate and the implications for indigenous peoples because one of the things that I must say I have had an incredibly inspiring opportunity to get to know the work of June Oscar and in supporting June yourself, and I have never forgotten the inspiration that both you carry around the work done on foetal alcohol syndrome and so on.
13:20:25 Would you mind just as quickly as possible just make sure that we put a line in the sand around doing the best by indigenous people when we are talking about childcare reform.
13:20:34 --     June is outstanding on another webinar which is why she can't be here.
13:20:39 June and I have worked together she did a PhD with us.
13:20:47 She did the best foetal alcohol syndrome management plan in the world and the research is ongoing.
13:21:08 The point about First Nations early childhood services is that snake and Aboriginal controlled early /KHAOLD hood services are different from the policies the government is putting out which is making barriers to Aboriginal women to access childcare.
13:21:29 75 Aboriginal early child hood centres in the Kimberly and here in Victoria and rural and regional urban Victoria, what they were were centres of culture and learning and elders and employment for mums and art and going out on country and language and so on.
13:21:32 In addition to the provision of childcare.
13:21:49 In a dramatically increased the number of kids ready for school because they weren't run by departments, Aboriginal people took the children away because they don't truss.
13:21:51 trust.
13:22:04 What the centres is did is provide Aboriginal holistic controlled service.
13:22:06 ...they stopped funding them federally.
13:22:10 Set them up, buildings everything and stopped funding them.
13:22:22 We lobbied and what they said was now this is after months of not responding to us they came back and said this is now a state responsibility.
13:22:39 I have to say quickly, I presume we are allowed to say things against the government, we went to a group of Aboriginal people and saw Simon Birmingham and said they are only 3 per cent of the population.
13:22:43 I said this is life and death for these guys.
13:22:43 It is.
13:22:52 You can put kids on a road to participation or to all the other things that end up in banks I can't.
13:22:54 That is how important it is.
13:23:07 We need to lobby separately to help the June Oscars and the other people still going, these centres, I don't know how they manage to do it but they are passionate.
13:23:12 It is different, the current government policies do not help Aboriginal women.
13:23:17 --      Fantastic but we will move on.
13:23:38 My question to Christina in your capacity as CEO of /SRER of, you have your head around the issue of security with women every day, it seems to me putting a question to you that we commonly use the phrase this is a win win situation.
13:24:06 It struck me in thinking about the session we are thinking about this as a win win win win win situation because not in order of priority we get and economic boost in terms of work force participation with women especially, if we fix our childcare system we increase the lifetime /AOERPBGs for woman who are behind the eight ball.
13:24:10 Generate increased level of economic security not just for women but families.
13:24:31 We decrease the pressure, economic and social pressure, on those experiencing even greater levels of hardship and distress, we can nation build for kids as the next generations so that is at least five big wins.
13:24:33 It is not rocket science, is it.
13:24:36 We are not daydreaming here.
13:24:50 So why is something so apparent, so beneficial to this nation, why are we lagging, what are the blockers.
13:24:56 --      Thank you, also just thanks for starting with Fiona's commentary.
13:25:06 I spend a lot of time arguing this on economic terms and it is frustrating, often you miss the whole benefit to actually children and families.
13:25:17 I am glad we started like that.  You are right, it is something we spent a lot of time over eight months thinking a lot about that question.
13:25:31 Last year we launched a campaign with Georgie Dent and a couple of other women's organisations called Make It Free which was campaigning for continuation of free childcare.
13:25:33 It is just one of those things.
13:25:36 Every corner you turn there is win win win.
13:25:54 It is hard to imagine that coming out of COVID there could have been a policy that the government could have implemented, that could have had a greater impact on /RE storing the economy than bringing in free child care.
13:25:57 There is numerous reasons for that.
13:26:03 I really like to highlight if you look at how many jobs are in childcare.
13:26:12 We know the government coming out of COVID are heavily investing in construction.
13:26:19 They have an ideology, it is male jobs that will pull us out of COVID.
13:26:28 We saw in the media it was a pink recession with a blue to recovery.
13:26:40 If you look at childcare, the institute did research and said for every $1 million the government spends on child care it creates 10.6 direct jobs for women.
13:26:50 These aren't considering the women that go back to work because...for every million dollars.
13:26:58 If you compare that to construction, for every million /TKPHRARS you get 0.2 jobs for women and one job for a man.
13:27:06 Even if you look at this in terms of recovery childcare would have been a fantastic industry to invest in.
13:27:09 As would health or other industries.
13:27:21 Then you look at other factors like Australia's well-known for having just incredibly poor rates of work force participation amongst women in the OECD.
13:27:22 Particularly single mothers.
13:27:34 So if you look at the OECD there is only two counts, turkey and either land with worse participation rates for single mothers.
13:27:37 That is appalling.
13:27:42 At the same time you have the government acknowledging this from an economic perspective.
13:27:51 A lot of government reports that acknowledge if we get women into the work force we could boost the economy by 25 billion dollars.
13:28:13 You have graphs and look at hours that children spend and enrolment rates of children in early childhood...you could draw a straight line through the counts that have invested in it and the countries that don't.
13:28:37 There is only one answer you can get to, in the situation the government had huge amounts of money to spend on recovery, where it has all this data at hand and doesn't invest in it, I think at some point you need to think this is ideology, it is men that will drive the labour market forward and drive the economy forward.
13:28:40 It is not data or good economics.
13:28:54 We continually see almost victim blaming of women and women made to feel they can't manage money and are somehow supposed to - it is their fault if they can't get back into the work force.
13:28:59 Really you are seeing none of the institutional factors in place that would support women back in.
13:29:09 I can't think of any other reason than just deep seated ideology that women's role is to be in the home at this point.
13:29:11 That is my conclusion.
13:29:30 --      I can see, I would think it is ideology plus, looking at public policy through the prism of...largely still male.
13:29:41 In that setting the value that is attached to a big yellow tractor driving around is a lot greater than it is to bringing up a child.
13:29:47 --      What about lobbying Mary?  What about the lobbying.
13:29:54 They are absolutely lacking any kind of humanity or credibility.
13:29:56 --      We will have to come back to that.
13:29:58 --      It is all about money for them.
13:30:17 --      I am with you and maybe at the end when we draw this together, Fiona, we know about the nuanced and the invisible and accountable lobbying that goes on.
13:30:25 What we are talking about in this session is drawing a bigger community lobbying around the issues.
13:30:30 A question to Rana.
13:30:40 Your passion and your professional commitment is around inclusion and cultural diversity, in large measure your work in support.
13:31:05 But from the ground up I want to know from you today in your expert view how do we improve a childcare system in this country without leaving a lot of people behind?  We can talk about inclusion, how do we actually make sure that our practice is inclusion re.
13:31:18 Would you like to this this up in terms of a very important reminder that one of the things to be got right in the campaign is that a lot of people aren't left behind.
13:31:19 --      Absolutely.
13:31:31 I think sport is a great example of where it doesn't work especially the AFL industry is full of young women who haven't had kids yet.
13:31:43 They leave and do what they want to do and come back at jobs that they are way more qualified for but they can't get back in the door where they should.
13:31:47 It is super relevant for support and we see players having to deal with it.
13:31:53 How do you be more inclusive?  I guess our voices need to be part of the conversation.
13:32:00 How do you actually do that?  God, I wish I had the list of quick answers for that.
13:32:14 I think for me if there is not room in the room where these decisions are being made, if there is not room there, if we are not willing to do that we need really robust fact /TAOEUPBDing in communities.
13:32:21 We need to go to communities, go to them and have conversations and speak to them in the way they speak about these issues.
13:32:28 I don't just mean in language, culturally diverse language but in the terms they see their own lives.
13:32:34 Have the conversation at that level and really hear what they are saying and what they need.
13:32:37 What I hear in my life is one size doesn't fit all.
13:32:41 We need to understand the different needs of different pockets of people.
13:33:00 I know for me and my friends that we look for culturally inclusive childcare options and we - a lot of Muslim women will opt out of sending children to generic childcare environments because they want the cultural understanding and they want the religious values.
13:33:01 It is important to them.
13:33:10 So they will opt for play groups or childcare options where they see people that look and sound a bit more like them.
13:33:15 We need to consider that in this whole conversation.
13:33:20 The other thing for me is the conversation has to include dads.
13:33:24 A lot of families these decisions are made together.
13:33:27 Sometimes they are not and that is a challenge in itself.
13:33:30 But we need to understand what the dads are doing.
13:33:38 If they are not part of the conversation, why aren't they?  What is it they need as well in this dynamic.
13:33:43 What are their barriers they face? .
13:33:47 I think guilt is still an issue for women too.
13:33:52 For me the story retelling around motherhood is a big part of this.
13:34:08 I know that has changed a lot but still this morning I sat at a cafe with a friend who talked about the guilt she felt dropping her child off at childcare because her doctor said you need time for yourself.
13:34:16 You are not getting any time to actually invest in you as a human being.
13:34:22 She was distraught having to do that and the trauma she felt at having to do that.
13:34:33 We often centre this around women's ability to stay in the workplace, what about just parents ability to be okay and deal with life and cope with the day.
13:34:35 Childcare plays a huge part in that.
13:34:45 That is the conversation, what we are saying, whether you use that time to work or use that time to invest in yourself we need childcare to be accessible.
13:34:53 I am getting really passionate but it is frustrating to me that we are still lagging in this way.
13:35:01 A lot of migrant women I know come from places where mothering is a communal thing.
13:35:22 They are not adverse to childcare as a concept but the options are just not workable, the flexibility, if they are working childcare set up near their home not near their work or in their workplace which would be a much more workable solution for families.
13:35:27 I could go on and on but I feel I should stop and let people disquestions.
13:35:30 --      Rana, thank you, great.
13:35:34 I think what a simple proposition to hold by.
13:35:37 To make room in the room.
13:35:53 I am sure that the central immediate people and the thrive by five people helping with this session today, I think that is a great short statement for them to take away as well.
13:36:00 Make room in the room as the attempts to mobilise people around the campaign proceed.
13:36:02 Thank you for that.
13:36:17 I am conscious we need to also make sure we have time for our audience to pose questions and we are dealing with the technological challenge of me coming in by phone on this and now having to look at emails to see questions coming in.
13:36:29 There is a question and I hope I have your name right Sidel officer nan December from womens health in the north.
13:36:45 Your questions is to Christina; can you please share with us the reference the further reading you used around the statistics for how many jobs are created as for 1 million spent for women and men.
13:36:49 That was a great point in your presentation.
13:36:52 If you could share that or follow up that would be great.
13:36:56 --      I actually saw that comment and I was typing a bit while you were commenting.
13:37:12 It is the Australian institute, I popped in a reference, a link into the chat about where Richard Dennis from the Australian institute quotes the report and maybe after week try to find a link and potentially send it in a follow upemail.
13:37:16 If you check out that you can work your way to the report I think.
13:37:33 --      It seems to me Rana from your point it ties in beautifulbly with an earlier point made by Fiona talking about her partnership work with June Oscar, one size is not fitting all.
13:37:40 People on the ground like yourself and June Oscar know this.
13:38:07 The take away in the discussion is framing the universe /EUBL accessible affordable child car system it is powered by an understanding and commitment to making sure that different and diverse communities are at the table and the system can provide a suite of options appropriate for people on the ground.
13:38:09 --      Can I say something on that.
13:38:28 So often we hear that message, there needs to be diverse voices but we get stuck by no, how do we hire someone, do we - like we need to throw the rule book out a bit and get creative and innovative about how we hear the voices and get the input.
13:38:32 Let's not get bogged down in what is the formal way to do that.
13:38:43 If it is just reaching out to whoever and build and build but the point is we hear them not necessarily the formalised way of doing it.
13:38:47 I see people getting bogged down in that stuff.
13:39:05 --      I think again in session is something that the women's trust has undertaken as part of its commitment to the Thrive By Five campaign and the central immediate is going with that.
13:39:15 Throw the book out, get on with the business of reaching out and listening to the people who know what the suite of options must look like.
13:39:17 That is a great point mate.
13:39:30 --      I would like to support what Rana said, this happens not with First Nations only but the principles of early childhood and pregnancy care and support are there.
13:39:31 We know them.
13:39:35 We know what the principles are.
13:39:39 How they are implemented we need to do Warana suggested.
13:39:46 We need to engage the populations and the groups and the mothers who know how they live and where they live and the context in which they live.
13:40:05 When you do that you get a system like with the Aboriginal response to the pandemic with is the best in the world, the complete reverse of the gap because Aboriginal people were put in charge of what was happening.
13:40:15 It gives power to the women and will probably help maternal guilt.
13:40:23 It is just that it shouldn't - I remember saying then I am going to make sure we get rid of this maternal guilt.
13:40:26 We broke the glass ceiling but didn't change the workplace.
13:40:29 That is another issue of how we need to change the workplace.
13:40:36 I think the question we were given today was whether will we get general equality without childcare.
13:40:42 I think it is the other way around, unless we get general equality we are not going to get these changes.
13:40:56 It is pushing for general equality which will make a difference to things like childcare and what we need to do in the workplace and the more women we get there and the whole sexual harassment stuff we are going through now.
13:41:12 --      I think following on from that, even here in Victoria I think we have started to see in legislative terms the impacts of having a government that is general party around the cabinet table.
13:41:19 We are seeing legislation more bolder and imaginative around voluntary assisted dying and so on.
13:41:38 There is no doubt that we have to push hard on getting much greater representation in our legislature as well as tackling the Monday /HREULGTS thick concentration of mail power vested in our parliamentary institutions.
13:41:54 The last several weeks have shown we can't just be talking about sexual harassment inquiries, we have to actually chisel away it is bastion itself that perpetuates this policy indifference.
13:42:33 I want to come back, we have another question here on how do we get men to see this as their issue too?  In your thinking of people working in the finance and superannuation sector, Richard Dennis said once to us in a speech a lot of men aren't interested in the childcare issue, not because they are not the primary carers but because they are happy to see childcare workers paid at low rates to look after their prized assets, their children.
13:42:40 How do we get a cultural turn around and involvement of guys in the childcare campaign?
13:42:43 --      I think it is a good question.
13:42:52 I think that COVID has really provided this incredible learning experience for so many households and men.
13:43:07 I think for the first time so many men suddenly realised what that work entails and what life is like when that support isn't available or provided.
13:43:15 I think this is a really - we are in an incredible point of time to be advocating for this.
13:43:23 I think that when it comes to getting more men involved the issue also relation to getting more women involved.
13:43:27 I think the answer to me or the big part of the answer is the same.
13:43:36 I think it is opening people's eyes up to what they can expect or should expect from their taxpayers dollars.
13:43:43 Once again COVID provided a good opportunity to do this.
13:43:54 I was responding to social media posts on our Facebook with women questioning why should we get paid super when we are at home looking after children, we are not working.
13:44:02 It is not until you tell them in other counts people get retirement benefits when they are at home caring.
13:44:10 In our counts there is affordable or free early childhood education.
13:44:16 They are not paying more tax, often they are paying less which is really a pry or tiation.
13:44:27 It is about opening people's eyes of what they should demand and expect.
13:44:47 The think about COVID we saw budgets balancing, not having enough money, having to cut this social service and that, suddenly there is hundreds of millions of dollars flying around, job keeper and so I think that has opened up people's experiences to okay well what is possible.
13:44:51 The answer is that anything is possible.
13:45:03 The government tomorrow could choose to stop subsidising fossil fuels and go with early childhood.
13:45:12 Part is opening up people's minds to what is available internationally and what other counts are doing and why shouldn't we have that in Australia.
13:45:15 The second thing is getting people to vote on this.
13:45:31 There was an article in the guardian recently that was like is this kind of...around women, is it enough to shift votes?  Or will people see it as another issue that they care about but it is not enough to shift their vote.
13:45:35 So I think that's really going to be the important driver going forward.
13:45:46 --      So Christina, a quick question, one of our audience asks which counts is the gold standard for early childhood education.
13:45:59 I look at what I this is a fantastic publication from The Parenthood that Georgie could have talked about which is called making Australia the best place in the world to be a parent.
13:46:18 This report lists the UK, Norway, New Zealand and Sweden as being out on - well ahead of Australia and not surprisingly we are well ahead of the United States and behind on the OECD average.
13:46:21 Which counts are the gold standard in your view.
13:46:24 --      I was going to throw that to Fiona.
13:46:29 I think the Scandinavian counts have good policies around that.
13:46:41 The point about the US is important, I think in general, all these policies we need to shift attention to what is Europe doing, what are the leaders doing, not what is the US doing.
13:46:49 I think we are following in so many ways, drifting more and more towards the US.
13:46:51 Look at the mess they are in.
13:47:00 I think it is an inspiring time to look at what is Europe doing well and how can we learn from counts doing the best.
13:47:04 Maybe Fiona has insight into specific country policy.
13:47:10 --      You have certainly mentioned the Scandinavian counts, particularly Sweden, the gold standard.
13:47:13 To those counts I add south Korea.
13:47:21 They have had terrific early childhood.
13:47:40 Cuba...investigating in women, huge investment in women in Cuba, 100 per cent of pregnant women in Cuba receive antenatal care with ultrasound by 20 weeks.
13:47:57 Cuba now has an under 5 mortality lower than America even though...then the very wealthy Arab counts that have appalling outcomes.
13:48:03 America is getting worse, we should not look there.
13:48:05 Low birth rates are rising.
13:48:15 I wanted to mention Bide next, there has been two...both of them have pointed to what to do about child poverty.
13:48:20 They use the Swedish data and many other counts to do it.
13:48:31 Biden has slipped into his big packages payments to families.
13:48:35 They have a long way to go but he has taken dot.
13:48:36 --      Okay.
13:48:45 --      I think doing international comparisons is good, it shows who is good and shames us.
13:48:53 --      I am conscious as moderator of the time, we have the limits now of wrapping up in the next five to 10 minutes.
13:48:58 So one question from the audience I will come back to.
13:49:12 I wonder if I could ask each of you, Fiona and Rana and Christina, just now to give us in a minute each a final reflection at least from today.
13:49:25 What would be one of the most important things you want to say for people to take away and think about as a result of this discussion and the issue more broadly.
13:49:26 Fiona.
13:49:29 --      I will be quick, I have been looking at the chat as much as I can.
13:49:34 I think the chats need to be captured.
13:49:35 --      I will come back to that.
13:49:42 --      I am very inspired by the comments there.
13:49:48 His Tonia is another country, have been there and seen how good they are.
13:49:56 With all this, this incredible evidence and passion and commitment from more than 50 per cent of the population we should be able to do something.
13:50:01 I wonder whether, people asked about how we lobby and what should we do.
13:50:25 I wonder whether the product difficulty commission, we got them to do things before in terms of childhood outcomes but bringing in the Richard Dennis stuff, the Australia institute, the stuff Christina is doing, whether we could get the productivity commission to take it on to show what an important investment this is for the nation.
13:50:28 --      Rana, as a closing reflection.
13:50:33 --      I just - the comments are incredible.
13:50:45 We have been talking about things in terms of mothering and motherhood but what we are saying is parenting and acknowledge that queer communities have a whole other experience around this, single parts.
13:50:49 parents.
13:51:00 My point is we do this work inclusively and make sure we bring people and different perspectives to the table when we do it and do it collectively.
13:51:02 --      Yep, thank you.
13:51:03 Christina?
13:51:06 --      I think we shall close on this.
13:51:12 Maybe I am optimistic because I think Fiona has a longer term perspective.
13:51:14 We could be close on this issue now.
13:51:23 I think that there is so many /WOPD /TKERful, I see the quality of the people commenting.
13:51:38 The collective group we have here, I feel there is a real opportunity to build momentum particularly potentially having an election earlier next year, to put it on the radar.
13:51:50 The other things I wanted to say, I think I have taken away from the comments of Rana and Fiona in the campaign we have been doing we should have done more to include inclusive voices.
13:52:01 We spoke about Aboriginal women but we didn't know about the centres that have been closed which is not good enough and we need to go back and add that to the campaign.
13:52:05 It is a reminder we are learning, developing and doing the best we can.
13:52:15 --      The other thing that has come through the chats is how the undervaluing of early childhood educators and the staff.
13:52:17 I think that is so important.
13:52:42 When we get more women into positions of power they will value these positions that aren't properly funded, they are not properly given opportunity for continuing education, which many of these counts we talked about, I add Finland in in terms of education where this is continual education and giving people power to improve their circumstances.
13:52:50 That gets back to Rana's point...
13:53:04 --      The implication for the thrive by five campaign a lobbying for the early childhood system that the question of the paid workers in that system has to be to the for.
13:53:18 As indeed does the question of how to best support the people that volunteer in these systems which are, again, for the most part women being a crucial volunteering component in the delivery of the services.
13:53:49 I wanted to throw in a question before I wrap up from Julie in the audience who I think very importantly puts her finger on the need for employers to discharge their accountability in terms of providing truly flexible workplaces that makes is easier for women and men to work these things out.
13:53:50 Christina, do you want to comment.
13:53:54 --      I wrote something on this this morning.
13:54:06 We have fully flexible working hours, you can work any hours you want and focus on performance, it is performance outcomes, not focussed on hours at the desk.
13:54:12 I don't understand why we don't - companies are being so moving on this.
13:54:21 I think we really are in an interesting time of how companies are coming out of COVID.
13:54:24 Some are keeping flexibility and some are not.
13:54:34 Employees want it, the best companies want to attract the best talent will have to adapt because some companies are keeping flexibility coming out of COVID.
13:54:39 I do not understand why companies don't bring in flexibility.
13:54:40 --      Thank you.
13:55:00 Look, another audience member, Moo asks how do we support early childhood educator and administrationive staff voices to be part of this.
13:55:20 I would like to at the women's trust when we /TKEUT down to debrief this event is to point out the important practical matters that have come through the discussion they need to take to the campaign thinking.
13:55:29 Such as how are they going to actually reach out and talk to early childhood educator and administrative staff about joining the campaign.
13:55:30 The same with employers.
13:55:38 I think we might do it that way as using it part of the debrief back to Thrive By Five.
13:55:41 I need to wrap up in a number of ways.
13:55:59 One is to say that we will certainly at the women's trust do our bit to capture the questions and resources that popped up in the session itself today and have it available on our website for people to follow up.
13:56:02 Thank you for that.
13:56:14 It has been a bit weird not being able to see that in any clarity from being on my phone as the moderator.
13:56:16 I look forward to seeing that in the whole.
13:56:25 I urge you to June us in the trust in the way we play a role in advocating on these issues.
13:56:34 Join the thrive by five campaign to lobby for a better system, along with other campaigns.
13:56:56 The thrive by five campaign is really going to try and work hard at the national lobbying point of view to have the tin ears and the concrete walls and whatever, the tin ears giving way to listening ears and the concrete walls mounted, it is sure as hell needed.
13:57:01 We need to mobilise as people, we need to come together.
13:57:02 We need to press.
13:57:09 We need to demand and lobby and we need to not take no for an answer.
13:57:21 I am thinking back to the March for justice on Monday day.
13:57:35 I think that marching cry of what do we want, well we want cheaper or free early high quality universal accessible afford absolutely childcare in this country.
13:57:38 When do we want it, well we basically want it now.
13:57:41 Start getting it in 2021/2022.
13:57:45 We don't want to wait another nine years or 25.
13:57:56 How galling today to think that people like Fiona Stanley saw a better system a quarter of a century ago.
13:58:02 That's pretty damning on this lucky country.
13:58:07 So I would like to close by thanking everybody for their participation.
13:58:21 I would like to thank our panellists, Christina, Rana, Fiona and I do hope that Georgie Dent picks up and is restored in the next day or so.
13:58:24 She does such great work.
13:58:34 I would like to thank our Auslan connections for the - making things sub titled as they were today.
13:58:47 I would love to thank obviously the trust staff, the Victorian Women's Trust staff who make me feel proud of the organisation by the way they pull these events off.
13:59:00 Love to thank the thrive by five and essential media people for enabling us to bring this session together today for you.
13:59:09 Essential media, Jane Garcia, Afsah and...it has been fantastic working with you.
13:59:27 Thank you everyone and stay strong, get your walking shoes out again and not take not for an answer over the next 12-18 months as this nation works its politics out about where we are going as a country.